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December 11, 2009, 02:44 AM
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there's been a lot of discussion and many suggestions regarding photogroup features on 23, so there must be a lot of pent up energy waiting to be spent using and creating groups if the improvements and new features are in place.
what are people intending to do with a more flickr like group system, if it is created here.
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December 11, 2009, 04:19 AM
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I actually don't really want a flickr-like system. The tendency for everyone to see groups as "themes" to curate and admin by inviting photos galore gets tiring and utterly boring. We have tags for that stuff.
The stuff I am excited about is the possibility of collaboration spaces. Be they public, pseudo-public, or private. Working on projects, having a place to share results with others doing similar. The email notifications are perfect to enable more real-time type collaborations and keep the conversations flowing. It's like an email-list rolled into a photo sharing group. Two features such tasks often require. The bonus of being able to have a custom domain that might be an offshoot of your larger project site/effort is also a boon.
Example:
The Chiplotle! group I had previously created on Flickr is more an example of a group concept suited for 23's features. I might try to move it before it gets rolling but there is Flickr's benfit of exposure on the other hand.
I've subscribed to a handful of groups on 23 but none are of this variety, yet. I hope that there is room for them in the crowded space of those recreating flickr group structures and passtimes?
I *did* create two location/geographic groups... but only because 23 seems to lack some other connectivity tools that could serve to connect users based on this type of information. I'd gladly delete those two if such geospecific community possibility was somehow inherent in the system.
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December 11, 2009, 04:48 AM
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i don't really want a flickr like system either, to be honest. following a large number of groups across a single site, and building a lot of tools to enable that kind of organization and growth might not be what 23 is best for.
since the primary update system is email, and because the 23 free accounts are very versatile, it would seem to benefit groups of people who may or may not regularly use a photo sharing site. you're chipotle group seems like a good example, and http://www.flickr.com/photos/drepetto/ seems just like the kind of person/account that might be better served by the 23 group/account model.
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December 11, 2009, 05:05 AM
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I'm not really sure what you both mean by a "flickr like system" being created... what is missing, technically, beyond the admin invite? Or do you mean the pattern of user behavior alone, creating such "curation" groups and contributing to them? People are already doing it on 23.
I personally see no problem at all with people engaging in such groups. I agree that the dynamics of such "stamp collection" groups usually get tiring and boring. Still people enjoy them for a while, and the resulting data set can be interesting/useful.
I think it would be interesting to list flickr groups of that kind that "succeeded" in some way.
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December 11, 2009, 05:17 AM
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I also tend to agree with those points G. I was speaking mostly to a subset of communities I'd like to see tools that encourage... but not suggesting the others are invalid. On flickr it became a problem of segregation and avoiding unwanted spillover of such user behavior into the wider community experience. Explore was a huge part of this, and the photo invite features another key component. Award comments bestowed by groups you are not in also played a huge role.
I had a thought related to addressing the latter (leveraging oembed as a consumer), but hell, I haven't even checked to see if inline images are accepted in comments here (They ARE in group topics). If they are, and lots of flickr folks do become active here, we are in for the same headaches all over again.
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December 11, 2009, 05:20 AM
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Embedded images are accepted in comments, yes. See this example.
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December 11, 2009, 05:29 AM
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Yeah I just tested (on one of your photos even). Interestingly though offsite images appear to have a border style that differs from on-site ones. Not sure if that is intentional.
I was seeing the difference between a linked and non-linked image I think.
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December 11, 2009, 05:32 AM
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Also maybe folders/sets/groups within favorites would allow stamp-collecting without steering photogroups towards that task? Assuming you could break the flickr-paradigm of doing anyway? How many times had we seen "organize my favorites" repeatedly mentioned in Ideas over there?
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December 11, 2009, 05:45 AM
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the two pillars of "flickr like system" are:
1] single page for viewing all discussion updates
2] invite individual photos to groups
since 1 is the primary interface for groups for many people and 2 caters to and enables a whole slew of flickr group types, i consider these non-trivial elements of a "flickr like system". they also encourage phenomena like group nerds as opposed to casual contributors and active recruitment as opposed to discovery.
it is a combination of technical features and the patterns of behaviour they activate and sustain. alternative directions could include models closer to twitter lists, curated tags, mailing lists and group shows. such systems would be "non-flickr-like".
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December 11, 2009, 05:46 AM
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There still is a significant difference between one person collecting photos that match a given criterion (or a set of criteria) and a group of people communally collecting such photos...
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December 11, 2009, 05:51 AM
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Bah on the lack of "preview", when I typed my previous comment stri's wasn't there.
Single page for viewing discussion updates: I'd love to get that here as well, particularly today with my email hosed.
Individual photo invites: that's a relatively recent introduction. Flickr groups lived and flourished well before that was introduced...
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December 11, 2009, 07:08 AM
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Re further stamp collecting paradigms (distributed):
the tagging hints at it... If groups had reserved machine tag namespaces (nexus: reserved for use by members here for example)... Collections of users could wage tag campaigns that retain attribution to the group for the created collection)... The group could just be a place for campaigners to hang out. The fruit of their labor visible as a search result.
Actually this is startlingly close to what was accidentally allowed (briefly) when anyone could send a any photo to a group with the shortcut tag method, but wouldn't break privacy model.
(just expounding on alternative approaches)
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